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Login Offset/Playtime limit Flaws, Ideas, and Alternative Solutions


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#1 Sylis

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Posted 02 November 2016 - 07:11 AM

Hello :)  I have a few ideas and thoughts about the "playtime limit" (login offset) that i would like to share,

 

sorry there is a lot of text. but this is a huge part of the game and i feel it deserves a lot of attentions

 

 

First Off, What Is The Playtime Limit?

 

The "Playtime limit" is a system implemented in hopes of preventing players from being online for long periods of time granting themselves immunity from being raided. and stopping their raid victims from getting revenge. and taking back their stolen gems

 

 

The Flaws/Problem With The Playtime Limit

 

I'm sure lots of people find it extremely irritating when you get booted out of the game and are told you aren't allowed to play for 3 hours. but asides from being an annoyance, its incontinent and a poorly thought out mechanic.

 

1) The system negatively effects dedicated players who play fair more then anyone else (because dedicated players are online more). this system punishes your top players for enjoying the game.

 

2) In addition to problem #1... Its not only unethical but also a bad business strategy. the same players that are making you the most money. subscribing monthly, buying orbs. continuously watching ads for keys etc.. . During my 3 hour bans from the game every 6 hours. im not sitting around waiting for the timer to hit 0. im playing other games, spending my money elsewhere. Instead of on king of thieves. 

 

3) in addition to problems #1 and #2   the more things in a game that frustrates the players. the more likely they are to move on to another game. taking their time and money. elsewhere

 

4) it doesn't stop cheaters/mechanic abusers.  cheaters will just find other ways to cheat. and will just abuse the 6 hour time frame.

 

5) you get no warning at all, you are just booted out of the game and that alone. makes the system twice as frustrating. if this far from perfect system happens to remain. a play timer would be the first and most helpful improvement needed.

 

6) a player will receive a number of notifications badgering them about a game that i cant even play, "So and so raided you" "bird upgrade finished" "Keys refilled" its like "i know im not allowed to play. thanks for reminding me and rubbing it in." "ohh. he stole my gem? wonder what one he took, thanks for the update. i get to stress over what gem he stole over the next 3 hours" it all adds to the frustration of this system

 

7) in continuation with problem #6 a player receives notifications throughout the 3 hours of detention, but aren't given a notification when you are allowed to play again? just another tweak to keep in mind if this flawed system happens to remain

 

8) it can interrupt you in the middle of something. you might be selling a gem to make space for a new one for a raid you are about to go on. or just be trying to start a new upgrade that is going to take several hours. or you could of just changed homes and are now stuck with poorly placed defenses. anything could happen really. and when it does. you are forced to wait for 3 hours before continuing.

 

9) Life outside of the game. doesn't always conveniently line up with your 6 hour time frame to play. what happens when you have to go to work. in 3 hours. but you got booted out of the game without getting a chance to start upgrades. now not only are you missing out on 3 hours that your projects could be completing. but now you also have work for 9 hours and a grand total of 12 wasted hours that things could of been running in the background

 

10) a lot can happen in 3 hours. and you have no control over what happens. and a lot could be done using those 3 hours. you could cue a trap upgrade or various other upgrades, you could help friends retrieve lost gems. you could test your unbeatable guild masters dungeons. but instead you are on cooldown

 

 

Is It Really Necessary?

 

i understand that the system is there to prevent players from making themselves un-raidable but is it really necessary?

 

lets make a comparison to clash of clans. Clash is a online game that implements raiding just like King of thieves, when raided, a player can come to your home. and steal your resources when and only when, you are offline. however. clash of clans does not kick you out of the game for 3 hours at a time. and the world keeps on turning. the game is still just as fun. and nobody complains.

 

 

How I Feel About The Game? (specifically raids)

 

As a player of king of thieves, i don't mind getting raided. why? because ...

1) Gold is almost too east to get if you just run a few raids.

2) Majority of the time, if you are smart about trap placement, you don't lose gems,

3) You can get revenge and take back your gems, and can even get more powerful gems if you are in a guild with perks.

 

Sure. sometimes you lose gems. but i have stolen hundreds of gems, if not more,  and yet, only lost a handful. personally. honestly, i probably wouldn't care if players could raid me well i was online, i get a 40 minute break in between every single raid attempt. and my traps should be enough to stop most raiders if they are strategically placed. and after all. this is a strategy game. the entire game is based around building and solving puzzles. however. removing the online protection from raids would likely just make more people angry so that's not a good idea.

 

 

 

Alternative Solutions...

(Some of these ideas will address just bots, some will also address players who are just online too often because they enjoy the game)

 

 

1) remove the system entirely and deal with bots and cheaters as they are discovered

 

2) Allowing you to be raided when raiding other players? the shield duration might need to be tweaked to further balance raiding

 

3) Every 2 or so hours have 1 hour or so that players can raid you, regardless of your online status. it would actually be really cool to get to watch live as they raid you. (editing your base in any way would need to be disabled well you are being raided)

 

4) allow players to get revenge on online players,

 

5) give players 5 minutes warnings and do server restarts (Forcing players to reconnect will force bot users to manually re launch the app) and also. restarts can be healthy. they clear out junk files in the server ram

 

6) implement a system to detect recurring movements (a player using a bot to stay online)

 

7) a system to detect when players are not actually doing anything. and just waiting around

 

8) increase a player's chance of getting raided when they go offline according to the last time a player raided them (including or excluding raiders who chose to skip the dungeon)

 

9) decrease their shield time after being raided depending on the number of online hours without a break

 

10) count offline house against your online time (play for 10 break for, 5 play for 10 break for 5 endlessly would never trigger the playtime limit)

 

 

there are tons of other, less annoying answers to solve the same problem. some of them even sound fun. id personally LOVE to watch people raid me. i love playing the game. but getting booted off for 3 hours at a time is extremely irritating. and id really like to see another solution take its place

 

Thankyou for making a super fun, and addictive game. i hope we as a community can work together to make the game even better


Edited by Sylis, 02 November 2016 - 07:13 AM.


#2 MrKukurykpl

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Posted 02 November 2016 - 09:48 AM

Nice topic, it covered most of what we think as community. However, there are (ironically) several problems with solving play time limit problem:
1st, being most important imo - we can't simply remove it. Subscription has far too great key regeneration to even let player run out of them. Without limit, nothing besides real life could stop raiding 24/7.

Also, some of your solutions could not work due to a simple and sad fact: game mechanics and build would not allow several players in the same base at same time. That would require rewriting whole game to support it.

But some your ideas are really worth thinking about, I'll try to cover them up when I get back home.

#3 Astair

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Posted 02 November 2016 - 01:04 PM

I dont know how much you have played kot, judging from your descriptions, you are not in the free for all level brackets yet (lvl 50+)

 

Ok so playtime limit is not necessary and it is not serving its purpose of reducing 3rd party exploits too but you can refresh the limit timer by taking a 3 hour break any time.

"Take a break  You have been playing for too long and your villagers need to rest for a few minutes" that is the message received before CoC force quits you for some time...but the offset is less than 3 hours i think.

Strategically placed traps can be strategically overcome by proper use of potions and good throne+heartbeat so your base is not as safe as you think.

 

The game uses Asynchronous architecture so viewing raids when the raid happens simultaneosly is not possible like in Coc and would require rewriting the entire game.

Same goes for Revenging or raiding online players, cuz you will have to wait patiently everytime you are raided.

 

So letting you stay online 24/7 is against the games purpose.



#4 Sylis

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Posted 02 November 2016 - 03:42 PM

in the end. this is all going to be in the hands of the games creators. but making changes could make them lot of money considering how many players there are in KoT. so rewriting a few things could be a profit. but but the current solution is crap. and it needs to be rethought.

 

id even prefer to have a raid break where players can raid me. and i can raid other people for fun, or for practice. but booting everyone out is not a solution. its a lazy way to get around other problems

 

 

Nice topic, it covered most of what we think as community. However, there are (ironically) several problems with solving play time limit problem:
1st, being most important imo - we can't simply remove it. Subscription has far too great key regeneration to even let player run out of them. Without limit, nothing besides real life could stop raiding 24/7.

Also, some of your solutions could not work due to a simple and sad fact: game mechanics and build would not allow several players in the same base at same time. That would require rewriting whole game to support it.

But some your ideas are really worth thinking about, I'll try to cover them up when I get back home.

 

awesome, looking forward to it

 

I dont know how much you have played kot, judging from your descriptions, you are not in the free for all level brackets yet (lvl 50+)

 

Ok so playtime limit is not necessary and it is not serving its purpose of reducing 3rd party exploits too but you can refresh the limit timer by taking a 3 hour break any time.

"Take a break  You have been playing for too long and your villagers need to rest for a few minutes" that is the message received before CoC force quits you for some time...but the offset is less than 3 hours i think.

Strategically placed traps can be strategically overcome by proper use of potions and good throne+heartbeat so your base is not as safe as you think.

 

The game uses Asynchronous architecture so viewing raids when the raid happens simultaneosly is not possible like in Coc and would require rewriting the entire game.

Same goes for Revenging or raiding online players, cuz you will have to wait patiently everytime you are raided.

 

So letting you stay online 24/7 is against the games purpose.

 

its been a long time since i've played clash. but back when i did. there was no playtime limit, so i was going on slightly old information,

 

and i don't see the problem with raiding 24/7 if you are able to get raided well online, or well raiding, etc. i don't see the difference between me raiding 20 time and getting raided 5, vs raiding 200 time and getting raided 50 in return, asides from the fact that the game would be less irritating.

 

and anything is possible. watching someone raid you? thats childs play. compared to what we have accomplished with computers. even if what i was viewing was slightly off. i can replay the raids. there is no reason why i couldn't watch the reply with a stream lag. and as for "waiting patiently every time you are raided" you wouldn't really have to wait. you could go raid someone. work on beating levels. get revenge. whatever. all you wouldn't be able to do is spend money and cancel your totem.  and technically. you could still spend up to half of your money. due to the fact that a raider can only get up to 50% of your cash depending on pots, boosts, and how well they do. and i dont even lose half of my cash overnight when i get raided 6-10 times. you could move and edit traps. as long as they don't move for the raider. so this is all entirely possible

 

however i do find your subscription comment interesting. i hadn't thought about that, however i don't really agree with your "your base is not as safe as you think" comment, when i  move into a new base. i spend a good hour, playing with my traps, finding the best layout i can. i make sure it is difficult for me to solve, and practice well removing the traps (as if someone used a potion). i watch and study the people who raid me and make changes. 90% of the people who raid me fail. and end up beating my dungeon with 0-1 ghosts (i think they are normally stars) and the odd person that does steal a gem, i just go take it back... i posted this just last night. and then went to bed. i was raided 7 times last night. 7 people used 3 different potions. only 1 beat my dungeon with more then 1 star. 2 other people used 1 potion, and the other 2 players used no potions. i lost barely any gold. but im running into the 500,000 gold cap continuously so i dont even care. and 1 of the 7 people stole a gem worth 3900. for me at level 15, thats a nice gem. but do i care? no, because i could of gotten it back (i got an unlucky spin) but my guild members are going to tackle it for me now. and if by some chance i don't get my gem back? ohh well. ive stolen almost 100000 points worth of gems (my current score) so, my traps are doing pretty well for me



#5 Astair

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Posted 02 November 2016 - 06:08 PM

in the end. this is all going to be in the hands of the games creators. but making changes could make them lot of money considering how many players there are in KoT. so rewriting a few things could be a profit. but but the current solution is crap. and it needs to be rethought.

Ya it would be nice if that was the case. But the whole game would be have to be remade from scratch which requires hours and hours of work. The way you say it sounds like all they need to do is rub off and correct the typos on some kid's homework.



#6 Portsomerdale

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Posted 02 November 2016 - 06:49 PM

One time the time limit hit me.......i had a great defense that i was trying to save. Knowing my defense would be good i set up a large ritual. I had a very hard time saving it and it took me to the time limit. Suddenly I was kicked off with a big ritual and a default defense. Not knowing what to do I went into my bathroom and cryed for three hours.........Six hours is a long time. I dont really mind the break but a little warning would be classy.

#7 Sylis

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Posted 02 November 2016 - 09:18 PM

Ya it would be nice if that was the case. But the whole game would be have to be remade from scratch which requires hours and hours of work. The way you say it sounds like all they need to do is rub off and correct the typos on some kid's homework.

 

the game wouldnt need to be rewritten from scratch. they do patches, bugfixes, and updates all the time. without starting from scratch,

 

ive simply listed some of the flaws in the current system. and suggested a few alternative options. some of my suggestions are simple. and some. not so simple. but something being a lot of work. isn't a a reason to not fix it. not doing something just because its a lot of work falls under the categories of laziness and procrastination

 

one of my suggestions was to add a clock to view how much time you have left. explain to me how that requires a rewrite of the entire game..? or having offline hours reset set your clock backwards instead of 3 consecutive hours. currently. if i play for 5 hours. and then leave for 2 hours and 59 minutes. when i rejoin, ill only have 1 hour left and then have to take ANOTHER 3 hour break.

 

changing this system would A) make them more money B ) leave less people frustrated C) keep players from finding interest in other games and moving on. the current system needs work no matter how you slice it.

 

so how is that not worth it. they would make more money.and as for it taking time? that's what employees are for. and they are likely paid per hour. its not like its 1 guy in his basement working on this game. there would be a team adjusting things.


Edited by Sylis, 02 November 2016 - 09:18 PM.


#8 Hannes

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Posted 03 November 2016 - 12:38 PM

If there are so many things to improve the game and the game should be built up again from scratch then why doesn't zepto make a new game called king of thieves 2? And then also with new traps and dungeons?



#9 Astair

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Posted 03 November 2016 - 01:48 PM

the game wouldnt need to be rewritten from scratch. they do patches, bugfixes, and updates all the time. without starting from scratch.

Like I said....The way you say it sounds like all they need to do is rub off and correct the typos on some kid's homework.

Patches are applied onto something....viewing people raid you simultaneously requires changing that "something".

Expect that, I can agree with most of the other ideas.


Edited by Astair, 03 November 2016 - 02:21 PM.


#10 Sylis

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Posted 03 November 2016 - 02:26 PM

Like I said....The way you say it sounds like all they need to do is rub off and correct the typos on some kid's homework.

Patches are applied onto something....what you are asking requires changing that "something".

again. one of my suggestions was to display a timer showing how much time you have to play. that timer already exists.... its just not displayed. that my friend. is a patch...

same deal with giving a warning before getting the boot. that is a patch. not a rewrite...

editing play and kick time is changing something that already exists... yet again. a patch suggestions.

Allowing you to be raided when raiding other players. a patch. not a rewrite. it would just count you as offline well raiding. and that makes sense itself. you're not even at your dungeon. why should it be protected

idea 10 was to count offline house against your online time. that is a partch. now a rewrite. most of the code would be additions. not changes

 

the ideas vary in the amount of work they would need. but displaying the time you have left. is by no means a huge task.. giving you a warning before giving you the boot. is not a huge job.



#11 MrKukurykpl

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Posted 03 November 2016 - 07:37 PM

Astair is talking about making the game allow more than 2 players in 1 dungeon. And yes, that would require rewriting everything.

Sylis is talking about fixing it on other way. And no, it wouldn't require to rewrite everything to make a timer. But I doubt it would be the same with "simply" allowing to be raided while online as well.

Understood now what's going on topic?

Edited by MrKukurykpl, 03 November 2016 - 07:37 PM.


#12 Sylis

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Posted 03 November 2016 - 10:57 PM

Understood now what's going on topic?

 

I'm not sure if its just me being dumb but im not sure what you are asking. could you rephrase the question please?



#13 Astair

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Posted 04 November 2016 - 10:38 AM

again. one of my suggestions was to display a timer showing how much time you have to play. that timer already exists.... its just not displayed. that my friend. is a patch...

same deal with giving a warning before getting the boot. that is a patch. not a rewrite...

to that i agree dude, never said that needed rewrite.

 

 

editing play and kick time is changing something that already exists... yet again. a patch suggestions.

i didnt say it wasnt.

 

 

 

Allowing you to be raided when raiding other players. a patch. not a rewrite. it would just count you as offline well raiding. and that makes sense itself. you're not even at your dungeon. why should it be protected

Nope..would just be too irritating for everyone to find "please wait, your dungeon is being raided by" message when coming back after a raid and viewing them raid is not a solution for this because that would need rewriting the entire game.

 

 

idea 10 was to count offline house against your online time. that is a partch. now a rewrite. most of the code would be additions. not changes

 

Never said it wasnt.


Edited by Astair, 04 November 2016 - 10:43 AM.


#14 Raiden

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Posted 13 October 2018 - 06:04 PM

Dev i will really appreciate if you add some timer before the Login Offset is about to happen about an hour before it happens it is not fair for the players who are really active and are not using any software hack.Plz Consider my Words and do something i will really appreciate it.If you would like to answer me send me a mail on zafarsaad9@gmail.com i hope for your reply plz answer. thanks.






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