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Darkon's Unique Base 21; Improved V2


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#1 Darkon

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Posted 18 February 2017 - 06:59 PM

UPDATED: Original post now contains all relevant information on how the design functions overall, how to help save it, and potential weaknesses and potion effectiveness—all other book-posts I made in the thread have been removed so that there is only this one lol This should be organized decently enough that anyone reading the post can now skip sections that they aren't interested in reading about.

 

A rather unique approach to Base 21, but with revisions that increase the difficulty and help to address some of the weaknesses the first version of the design had. The first version of this design can be found at: http://forum.kingoft...pin-on-base-21/

 

As always, please feel free to post your experiences with this design as any and all feedback is appreciated! Thanks!

 

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Design:

 

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Solution:

 

 

 

The completion of this base requires a series of timed jumps in order to just barely jump under the bullet from the top platform, giving the player just the right amount of time to slide down the wall and make a pixel-perfect cross to the right wall. In the first version of the design I determined that there were some specific timings, but there were no real pixel-perfect jumps (as the player had a choice between a couple pixels, making it only timing dependent)—In this version of the design, though, there certainly are pixel-perfect jumps.

 

After the player has made it to the right wall they must make "edge jumps" (and/or crosses to help impact timing) until they are able to make the last jump to the left and slide to the chest. The last jump, though, is timing specific, and requires that the player be able to cross just under the bullet as it passes so that there is enough time to slide to the chest. This is often only possibly by knowing in advance which jump is the jump, and then sliding further down the edge of the lower platform to make the cross which allows the player to arrive several pixels lower than if they were to attempt to cross above the ledge, giving them enough space to reach the chest. Also, bear in mind, the edge jumps are somewhat pixel-dependent—I am not sure of the specific requirements, but if you make all your edge jumps from the top pixel then when you cross you will do so into a bullet, and if you make all of your edge jumps on the lowest pixel then you when you cross you will not have time enough to slide to the chest. Pay attention to which pixels you edge jump on—if you notice that you make a lot of them from the top, delay the last ones a little bit more, and if you notice your early edge jumps are near the bottom, then speed up the subsequent jumps and aim for the top pixel. Try and get roughly a roughly half-and-half blend of pixels so that you both cross under the bullet while having enough time to slide to the chest.

 

Crossing left and right multiple times after reaching the right wall is no longer recommended—crossing to vary the timing is much more risky now that there is no platform to terminate the bullets. I recommend sticking to the solution in the video as multiple crossings do not appear to result in a solution with fewer jumps, and is certainly not worth the risk of accidentally crossing into a bullet or being forced to rebound back to the door.

 

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Theory:

 

The design still incorporates the forced edge-jumps from the lower platform in order to clear, but has gotten rid of the top platform's dead end in favor of an incredibly difficult and timing specific series of jumps. The spinner placement has also been drastically altered—instead of being placed in order to force an early cross over from the sequential edge jumps (or to put pressure on the wall), the spinner has been moved for the sole purpose of scoring a few early kills. The spinner is, by default, also the trap that will be forced disabled with a potion if the player has not yet died to any trap. Because of these factors, the spinner will most likely be one of the two traps disabled in a death + potion combination, resulting in the final cannon still being in-place to force this absurdly difficult series of jumps. In this version of the design we actually prefer the spinner be disabled due to the difficulty of the jumps required to make it to the right wall with the lower platform.

 

I have tried the homing cannon in several locations, both above and below the chest, but have not found a placement that is as nearly effective as simply stacking two cannons on top of each other (either in their current location, or one block up). In the instance the spinner is disabled, and the primary cannon is as well, the homing cannon will be all that is left to defend the chest—unfortunately the homing cannon can be easily "tricked" and the descent to the chest will be rather simple comparatively. This can be verified by moving the spinner and the cannon out of the way then attempting to pass the layout with only the homing cannon defending the chest and in any position of your choosing. It is because of this that I would still recommend a dual-cannon setup for 150 orbs.

 

The cannon placement can be varied, with either the location depicted or one block higher. Both locations require the same steps to clear—get to the right wall, 8x edge jumps, and then a cross at the bottom of the next. The cannon placement where it is, though, gives the player a little more time to return to safety in case they double jump out of the gate and fly off to the left—if the cannon is moved up then the bullet will most likely kill the player, but if the cannon is in the lower block as depicted then they will have enough time to recognize the threat of the bullet and rebound safely to the right...where they are much more likely to die to the spinner instead on its second go around (good—save that cannon!). It also "feels" harder to make the first jump from the wall to clear the gap under the bullet. Because of this, in my solution, I jump over the spinner twice to avoid making that jump from the first wall-slide. I believe it to be possible to skip those steps, but there is also a small chance that the trajectory from the initial wall-slide would prevent the gap from being cleared at the maximum distance required to be able to cross to the right wall. This is also favorable since it means the first jump may be harder, whereas the top cannon placement can certainly be completed from the initial wall-slide (and, in fact, I recommend performing the top cannon solution in the first wall-slide).

 

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Potential weakness of the design, and the effectiveness of potions:

 

A 3-star is even less likely than before, but still possible, if the player avoids the spinner with an immediate jump, dies to a cannon then disables it with a potion, and then disables the second cannon via deaths—having the spinner score a couple early kills helps reduce the odds of this happening. A gang and disable potion, though, used with this idea in mind, can help make disabling both cannons more easily possible—but, even then, the player will have had to die 7 times to your cannons the majority of the time, just in hopes to avoid the difficult jumps, which means that a strong heartbeat will be their only saving grace... aka, luck. Fezzik clarified this, and also provided that "if your traps are level 40 that still means 1 star even if the raider gets 3 heartbeat activations" with 7 deaths.

 

As with the previous design, even knowing the exact requirements of the layout will not help you to perform them reliably enough to hand out a 3-star to someone who simply watched a video.

 

In practice, a gang potion will do incredibly little against the design if at least one cannon remains due to the extreme precision required to getting to the right wall—trailing thieves will not be at the appropriate distance down the left wall in order to make the jump to cross. Also, since the homing cannon is not favored, there can be no misdirection; the jump is strictly mandatory. The biggest flaw with the original design was that a well-timed gang could create enough delay to get to the chest on the first jump (missing the bullet) if the second to the last thief in the gang crossed at the bottom of the edge—this is no longer the case. A gang potion with piano fingers the defense's biggest threat, so just know that it can be 3-starred with luck, but also enjoy some peace of mind because that 3-star is also not very likely.

 

Ghost potions are very likely to be used against the defense since the player will have plenty of time to safely watch it—but it will not make the jumps any easier, so don't sweat them too much. It's true that they will know what to do up top, and how many edge jumps to perform, but the entire process is precise enough to punish all of their slightest mistakes.

 

Disable potions will almost assuredly be used since the chest is relatively close to the door. The design has been built around this understanding, but is still susceptible to disabling the cannon and disabling the other via deaths. However, again, this is really a non-issue because it will be forcing the player to die a minimum of 7 times which is as much as even the best design can hope for. In the instance both the spinner and a cannon is disabled, the design will still be strong enough to fill your replay log with 0-stars so long as a single cannon remains.

 

A slow time potion is a double-edged sword—it makes for more precision in their timing, but also increases the window where they will make a jump with incorrect timing. In theory, though, this should be the single most effective potion against the design, but in reality the jumps are difficult enough that this potion will not be more effective than attempting to disable both cannons.

 

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Thanks:

 

A special thanks to Fezzik for helping me to determine that the first version of this base was susceptible to a gang potion, which led me to this improved redesign. And also for clarifying how disables via death function!

 

Also, a thank you to everyone who complimented the design—the encouragement helped me to endure saving it lol

 

Finally, a thanks to anyone who sets this as their defense—there are a ton of viable defenses for Base 21, so seeing this one in particular out in the wild would make my day =)


Edited by Darkon, 23 February 2017 - 04:04 AM.

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#2 Sotherogue

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Posted 18 February 2017 - 07:16 PM

Wow! You are incredible. I can not WAIT to get this base again to try this, I'll be running golds for sure. You have a talent, I hope you get the bouncy platform base! I'm sure you'd do great things with it!


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#3 Darkon

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Posted 18 February 2017 - 08:02 PM

Thank you Sotherogue—I take the compliment very seriously. Hopefully I get a bouncy platform soon! I don't think I ever had a chance at it yet, and, if I did, it was long before I knew what I was doing. I've seen a lot of the bouncy designs and I can say it would be very difficult to make something formidable there while looking and feeling different. That base is pretty well covered, so the challenge will be real in designing a new one lol Not quite sure that I can =P

 

For now, though, I am here at 21 and enjoying my stay. Not looking forward to saving this one twice, although I did get a little closer in my third successful wall cross. I really want to be sure there can be no shortcuts this time around, so I will update the thread with whichever cannon placement (current or one block lower) forces the most amount of mandatory jumps. I'm watching a recording of one of the crosses I made to the right where I missed the edge jump and crossed immediately before it, and, judging from the position of the thief when he hit the bullet, I'm fairly confident the solution would not be as simple as make the cross to the right then cross back to the left at the bottom of the platform. This cannon placement at least, then, guarantees 1-3 edge jumps before the player could then choose to make a few crosses to vary the bullet timing, or more sequential edge jumps if the player chooses to chill there and wait for the proper timing.

 

It will take a long time though to compare saves between the two cannon placements to determine which is the better pick that forces a higher minimum jumps required since I suck at consistently getting there to try lol fml XD What is good, though, is that the first jump from the top platform immediately sets the timing for the wall cross, so it doesn't matter if you take the jump past the first bullet, or hop over the spinner and then jump under the 100th bullet—the timing to arrive at the right wall, and all that follows after it, will be the same. So basically you can't just wait up at the top to make it easier because it will be the same difficulty regardless—the cannon placement is what is going to change up the jump orders, so there will definitely be a "better" placement between the two options...I just have no idea which that is yet lol


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#4 Darkon

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Posted 18 February 2017 - 11:18 PM

Edit: All information moved to the OP to help keep it organized and lessen the effects of eye-bleed while scrolling the thread.


Edited by Darkon, 20 February 2017 - 07:14 PM.

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#5 Darkon

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Posted 19 February 2017 - 06:07 PM

Edit: All information moved to the OP to help keep it organized and lessen the effects of eye-bleed while scrolling the thread.


Edited by Darkon, 20 February 2017 - 06:41 PM.

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#6 usb

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Posted 19 February 2017 - 07:31 PM

Why your posts are so long? I feel a pain in my eyes! Anyway, this design is great. I'll rush to get it.

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#7 Darkon

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Posted 19 February 2017 - 07:35 PM

hahaha dude I have no idea. I just have a habit of documenting lol I probably shouldn't accompany each post with a book, but I want to make sure that anyone who scratches their head and asks "so, uh, why is it a big deal if this is a little different than the last?" or "why should it matter if the cannon is one block lower if the timing is set by the first jumps under the bullet?" etc. understands why.

 

I'll probably get over this as I move on to other environmental bases and try different designs lol For now I'll chalk it up as my love for 21 demanding that I explain as best I can why someone should pick this design over a different or equally effective one xD


Edited by Darkon, 19 February 2017 - 07:35 PM.

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#8 Darkon

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Posted 20 February 2017 - 03:15 AM

Edit: All information moved to the OP to help keep it organized and lessen the effects of eye-bleed while scrolling the thread.


Edited by Darkon, 20 February 2017 - 06:41 PM.

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#9 usb

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Posted 20 February 2017 - 11:49 AM

Perfect. Now go call DJRMAX.


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#10 ZelevenZ11

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Posted 20 February 2017 - 04:50 PM

Wow, that must be good

I'm hosting "Fight to survive!", if you're interested to play FtS! be sure to check out the forum games section :D

 


#11 Skydancer

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Posted 20 February 2017 - 05:08 PM

Holy shit this is insane. I just arrived in this beautiful base, I'll definitely try it out with single cannon just for the challenge of completing it even once


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#12 Sotherogue

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Posted 20 February 2017 - 05:08 PM

Figured I would update the thread with the solution while forcing anyone who watches it to listen to a now obscure musical track from an older video game. Not worth posting any replays of attackers, because nobody has made it to the right wall even once—hundreds of deaths in the top room and left wall. The one person who managed a 1-star was via gang + disable + suiciding repeatedly into the left wall, so I still count that as a mission accomplished lol
 
https://www.youtube....h?v=uv6YY8SqatE

Wow this is insane. Run deep golds my friend!


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#13 Darkon

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Posted 20 February 2017 - 05:55 PM

Holy shit this is insane. I just arrived in this beautiful base, I'll definitely try it out with single cannon just for the challenge of completing it even once

 

If you get the swing of things and get a single cannon clear, then it will definitely be worth it to upgrade to the dual cannons via orbs! Man I've tried every homing cannon placement possible, and all of them can be avoided easily if it's the last trap. But it could still be effective if they do not use a disable potion or end up dying to the homing or spinner—so long as that bottom cannon is running, it'll be solid xD Good luck getting to the right wall sir—let me know how it goes in terms of difficulty compared to other 21 layouts you've tried before! Hearing that would be like cookies and a pat on the head lol Feedback is always appreciated!

 

Wow this is insane. Run deep golds my friend!

 

lol if I had deep golds I would... unfortunately I am still a little fish. I am, though, about to hit lvl51—so I am upgrading my cannon right now on my alternate defense (homing, spinner, cannon in a standard dual-platform that forces a precision wall-slide delay) just so that I can hopefully hurt some of the god-like attackers that will come my way shortly. I really should have upgraded my cannons sooner—I want them at least in their 30's before I open it up to the wild knowing that suiciding into them will be the smart attacker move—gangs that fail to disable both cannons though have proven in replays to just spam death at the top, so I am still not worried about them making it easier for anything but intentionally suiciding the cannons lol But.. the cannons won't even be level 20 when I change back to this defense tonight. My traps are pretty under-leveled and I blame the game for not making it more clear to new players that upgrading as early and often as possible is extremely important. I started out like a lot of players probably do—upgrade traps often, but don't upgrade during a ritual so that you keep your all-important gems. Pffft, gems aren't important at all in early levels, but you still are urged to protect them. I really wish the game gave warnings like "I notice you haven't upgraded a trap recently—hide your kids, hide your wife" kind of thing because the high level thieves are really going to stick it to me lol

 

If I could go back and start over from level 1 on this same account, I would always be running a trap upgrade 24x7. Gems aren't nearly as important as the upgrades are for later levels.


Edited by Darkon, 20 February 2017 - 07:43 PM.

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#14 Unique

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Posted 20 February 2017 - 07:48 PM

I think we may have a new berndt_toast here, folks :D

Edited by Unique, 20 February 2017 - 07:49 PM.


#15 Darkon

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Posted 20 February 2017 - 08:15 PM

I think we may have a new berndt_toast here, folks :D

 

hahahaha if only good sir—it took me hours just to record the solution, and then it took me several hours more just to figure out how to add music to the video lol I doubt I could ever live up to that name, but I certainly appreciate the kind words!


Edited by Darkon, 20 February 2017 - 08:43 PM.

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#16 Psycho17

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Posted 20 February 2017 - 09:08 PM

You sir...Are a badass muffin
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#17 MrKukurykpl

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Posted 20 February 2017 - 09:15 PM

Well, I'll be another one to say that you sure put a lot of heart (and time) into this, and the result is amazing. Congrats :)

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#18 usb

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Posted 20 February 2017 - 09:29 PM

hahahaha if only good sir—it took me hours just to record the solution, and then it took me several hours more just to figure out how to add music to the video lol I doubt I could ever live up to that name, but I certainly appreciate the kind words!

 

Now you know how to put a music in a video. That will save a lot of time :P


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#19 usb

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Posted 20 February 2017 - 09:32 PM

If you get the swing of things and get a single cannon clear, then it will definitely be worth it to upgrade to the dual cannons via orbs! Man I've tried every homing cannon placement possible, and all of them can be avoided easily if it's the last trap. But it could still be effective if they do not use a disable potion or end up dying to the homing or spinner—so long as that bottom cannon is running, it'll be solid xD Good luck getting to the right wall sir—let me know how it goes in terms of difficulty compared to other 21 layouts you've tried before! Hearing that would be like cookies and a pat on the head lol Feedback is always appreciated!

 

 

lol if I had deep golds I would... unfortunately I am still a little fish. I am, though, about to hit lvl51—so I am upgrading my cannon right now on my alternate defense (homing, spinner, cannon in a standard dual-platform that forces a precision wall-slide delay) just so that I can hopefully hurt some of the god-like attackers that will come my way shortly. I really should have upgraded my cannons sooner—I want them at least in their 30's before I open it up to the wild knowing that suiciding into them will be the smart attacker move—gangs that fail to disable both cannons though have proven in replays to just spam death at the top, so I am still not worried about them making it easier for anything but intentionally suiciding the cannons lol But.. the cannons won't even be level 20 when I change back to this defense tonight. My traps are pretty under-leveled and I blame the game for not making it more clear to new players that upgrading as early and often as possible is extremely important. I started out like a lot of players probably do—upgrade traps often, but don't upgrade during a ritual so that you keep your all-important gems. Pffft, gems aren't important at all in early levels, but you still are urged to protect them. I really wish the game gave warnings like "I notice you haven't upgraded a trap recently—hide your kids, hide your wife" kind of thing because the high level thieves are really going to stick it to me lol

 

If I could go back and start over from level 1 on this same account, I would always be running a trap upgrade 24x7. Gems aren't nearly as important as the upgrades are for later levels.

 

This one about the warning about traps levels is gud.

 

Are you going to hit +51? I'll TEST IT! I'm 52 as Debugger. Take note that Debugger is almost in the same situation as you. And my dragon is still lv1!!!! I DON'T REMEMBER IF I EVER UPGRADED THE DRAGON IN THIS ACCOUNT!!! Also don't expect me 3-starring your dungeon. I'm not that good. I have 75 orbs. May I use some :) Please put baby golds there :D


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#20 Darkon

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Posted 20 February 2017 - 10:38 PM

I hit 51 about an hour ago from skulls =( Totally not ready lol Used a few orbs to finish off my cannon upgrade timer and then immediately started another upgrade. So I won't be running this defense until tomorrow after the upgrade—but I will be sure to at least throw up another baby gold! Or take a leap of faith and run at least a 600k UG—but knowing that my cannons are so low leveled means I may not have enough "umph" to stop a suicide runner lol If I the cannon upgraded enough I would be much more comfortable though! Right now I'm still rocking a pretty standard defense on another trap set while the cannon is disabled, so if you do find me, don't expect anything crazy yet lol =(


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