Jump to content


Photo

Ability To Stop The Spinning Wheel By Yourself

Wheel Chance Win Lucky Unlucky Materials Steal Random Gems Retrieve

  • Please log in to reply
28 replies to this topic

#1 BenBublil

BenBublil

    Pickpocket

  • Hardened Thief
  • 7 posts

Posted 02 April 2015 - 09:31 PM


When players steal gems, retrieve gems or get materials for costumes, the arrow in the wheel turns, and THE GAME decides if you win or lose. That's 100% to be lucky or unlucky. Your fate isn't in your hands.

Well, think of that: the game itself gives you chances of winning, say original 50% to steal gems, but most of the time you feel the game tricks you if you lose, when you get 3 stars and a great chance to actually win!

Why can't WE decide if we win or lose? Why the game chooses our fate randomly (or is it?)? My idea is simple. The wheel turns in a certain speed, you press, the wheel stops.

Since your chances are the same, say the original 50% again, wouldn't it be more fun for everyone to be able to win BY YOURSELF and not just to get gems, retrieve gems or get certain materials IF THE GAME DECIDES SO?

Tell me what you think guys. Comments below!

#2 Blizzard

Blizzard

    Winter is coming...

  • Ex-Watcher
  • PipPipPip
  • 982 posts
  • LocationUnited States

Posted 02 April 2015 - 09:35 PM

The chances wouldn't be the same.

 

The game uses something like a random number generator, so it is fair.  

 

I could see maybe if you got no deaths you should be able to stop it by yourself.  If this option were to be added many of the percentages for 3 stars, 2 stars, and 1 stars would have to be decreased because it would be much easier to stop the arrow by yourself than having the game stop it for you.


Posted Image Posted Image


#3 BenBublil

BenBublil

    Pickpocket

  • Hardened Thief
  • 7 posts

Posted 02 April 2015 - 09:40 PM

That's why I wrote "in a certain speed". If the speed is high enough, the chances become the same. The faster the arrow will spin, the lower your chances to really hit the spot you want!

Edited by BenBublil, 02 April 2015 - 09:42 PM.


#4 Blizzard

Blizzard

    Winter is coming...

  • Ex-Watcher
  • PipPipPip
  • 982 posts
  • LocationUnited States

Posted 02 April 2015 - 09:43 PM

That's why I wrote "in a certain speed". If the speed is high enough, the chances become the same. The faster the arrow will spin, the lower your chances to really hit the spot you want!

 

However these set speeds can be mastered.  A different speed for each star would help a little, but eventually people would grow to learn the speeds.

 

Making the chances once again increased.


Posted Image Posted Image


#5 BenBublil

BenBublil

    Pickpocket

  • Hardened Thief
  • 7 posts

Posted 02 April 2015 - 09:53 PM

However these set speeds can be mastered. A different speed for each star would help a little, but eventually people would grow to learn the speeds.

Making the chances once again increased.


I'm not sure about that. Once again, if the speed is high enough, I mean, really high, it would be the same as the game randomly chooses if you win or lose. You won't have time to think when to press, it will all look the same. A Super-High speed will make it nearly impossible to master, and it'll make you say: "Well, at least I lost. NOT THE GAME CHOSE I DID".

Different speeds are not the point! Because when you change the speed, your chances are getting higher/lower to win! Same speed for all stars will make it as fair and as hard to win what you want.

#6 T.J.

T.J.

    The first Watcher

  • Ex-Watcher
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1150 posts
  • LocationChamber of Watchers

Posted 02 April 2015 - 11:04 PM

no matter what speed you put this i see it being easily abused, leave it on the random number generator there is no way you can make it fairer then that



#7 Liammagoo

Liammagoo

    Wow, thanks

  • Ex-Watcher
  • PipPipPip
  • 614 posts
  • LocationEarth, Space

Posted 02 April 2015 - 11:10 PM

no matter what speed you put this i see it being easily abused, leave it on the random number generator there is no way you can make it fairer then that


I second that. If you make it so the wheel slows down the same speed all the time, people can abuse it for an easy 100% gem steal chance making locks, traps, dungeon layouts, gem defence chance upgrades AND costumes completely useless! Even if we could stop the spinner when we want - wouldn't RNG still slow the wheel down for you?

#8 BenBublil

BenBublil

    Pickpocket

  • Hardened Thief
  • 7 posts

Posted 04 April 2015 - 12:27 AM

I second that. If you make it so the wheel slows down the same speed all the time, people can abuse it for an easy 100% gem steal chance making locks, traps, dungeon layouts, gem defence chance upgrades AND costumes completely useless! Even if we could stop the spinner when we want - wouldn't RNG still slow the wheel down for you?


The thing is, that in the past few days my base was raided at least 20 times, all went for 1 star - 8 GEMS WERE STOLEN. Each and every time at 5% chance of winning.

Now you tell me. Is it luck? Is it bad luck? Or is it statistically should be that 1 out of 20 should succeed in stealing gems?

If you guys consider the spinning wheel as unmasterable, which I sure will be if the idea is implemented, wouldn't it be more fair? Wouldn't you feel like PLAYERS stole your gems AND NOT the game chose they did?

If it's really a RNG, my gems wouldn't be stolen so much. As for the slow down, no. It will always slow down at the same speed.

Right now, it all looks robotic and unrealistic. In my opinion, players should be the ones to set their fate in the game. That's what this article is all about.

#9 EPICI

EPICI

    Thievery Master

  • Hardened Thief
  • PipPipPip
  • 556 posts
  • LocationCanada

Posted 04 April 2015 - 01:57 AM

The thing is, that in the past few days my base was raided at least 20 times, all went for 1 star - 8 GEMS WERE STOLEN. Each and every time at 5% chance of winning.

Now you tell me. Is it luck? Is it bad luck? Or is it statistically should be that 1 out of 20 should succeed in stealing gems?

If you guys consider the spinning wheel as unmasterable, which I sure will be if the idea is implemented, wouldn't it be more fair? Wouldn't you feel like PLAYERS stole your gems AND NOT the game chose they did?

If it's really a RNG, my gems wouldn't be stolen so much. As for the slow down, no. It will always slow down at the same speed.

Right now, it all looks robotic and unrealistic. In my opinion, players should be the ones to set their fate in the game. That's what this article is all about.

You realize the game caps the gem steal chance at a minimum of 5% right? No matter what you do, the chance can't get lower.

So I propose a fix to everything you're arguing about.

LET PEOPLE CHOOSE WHEN TO STOP THE SPINNER

BUT

KEEP THE ACCELERATION AS NORMAL

 

I second that. If you make it so the wheel slows down the same speed all the time, people can abuse it for an easy 100% gem steal chance making locks, traps, dungeon layouts, gem defence chance upgrades AND costumes completely useless! Even if we could stop the spinner when we want - wouldn't RNG still slow the wheel down for you?

Faster spinner = more velocity = more time to slow to a complete stop.

Gem defense will get one extra stat: random acceleration. The amount of randomness put into the formula. No upgrades means a set in stone slow down rate. Upgrades offset this rate by a random amount, with further upgrades increasing the distance. The upgrade not only affects the slice of the pie but the unpredictability.

 

However these set speeds can be mastered.  A different speed for each star would help a little, but eventually people would grow to learn the speeds.

 

Making the chances once again increased.

Nah. I think you'd be caught off guard if you expected the spinner to slow down gradually but it stopped almost immediately, and you went again and the opposite happened. A reason to max your gem defense chance anyways.

 

I'm not sure about that. Once again, if the speed is high enough, I mean, really high, it would be the same as the game randomly chooses if you win or lose. You won't have time to think when to press, it will all look the same. A Super-High speed will make it nearly impossible to master, and it'll make you say: "Well, at least I lost. NOT THE GAME CHOSE I DID".

Different speeds are not the point! Because when you change the speed, your chances are getting higher/lower to win! Same speed for all stars will make it as fair and as hard to win what you want.

Speed is not the hardest thing to master (unless it's 360 noscoping the pie 50 times a second), but rather, varying acceleration is. With a large slice of the pie to land on, you have much more freedom, and you worry less even with extremely high speed.

 

The chances wouldn't be the same.

 

The game uses something like a random number generator, so it is fair.  

 

I could see maybe if you got no deaths you should be able to stop it by yourself.  If this option were to be added many of the percentages for 3 stars, 2 stars, and 1 stars would have to be decreased because it would be much easier to stop the arrow by yourself than having the game stop it for you.

Good point. BUT we have gem defense for a reason right? Just modify the upgrade.

Also the pseudorandom numbers thing seems to contradict our statistical conclusions and observations.

 

Checkmate and problem solved.


Voting against democracy?


#10 flufiham

flufiham

    Thievery Practitioner

  • Hardened Thief
  • PipPip
  • 249 posts
  • LocationSecret

Posted 04 April 2015 - 02:28 AM

The thing is, that in the past few days my base was raided at least 20 times, all went for 1 star - 8 GEMS WERE STOLEN. Each and every time at 5% chance of winning.
Now you tell me. Is it luck? Is it bad luck? Or is it statistically should be that 1 out of 20 should succeed in stealing gems?

unless I'm reading this wrong, you are asking if 1 in 20 should succeed in stealing gems with 5% chance. The answer is YES. 5% is LITERALLY 1 in 20.
I'm back after a LONG break.

#11 Muriko

Muriko

    Thievery Practitioner

  • Hardened Thief
  • PipPip
  • 224 posts

Posted 04 April 2015 - 02:32 AM

This will never happen. Making the spin client sided will make it so it can be exploited.



#12 Anse

Anse

    Thievery Adept

  • Hardened Thief
  • Pip
  • 57 posts

Posted 04 April 2015 - 02:38 AM

unless I'm reading this wrong, you are asking if 1 in 20 should succeed in stealing gems with 5% chance. The answer is YES. 5% is LITERALLY 1 in 20.

 

i think he is saying 8 in 20. And well... i'm not agree with this, if you can stop the spinning wheel only with 0 deaths, this will happens too, 8 in 20 with 5% chance to succeed. If you can stop the spinning wheel allways, someone will master it and that is free gems. It's easier get gems if you can stop that. maybe tat percentage would be 15 in 20 with 5% chance



#13 werta600

werta600

    Thievery Adept

  • Hardened Thief
  • Pip
  • 38 posts

Posted 04 April 2015 - 09:16 AM

The thing is, that in the past few days my base was raided at least 20 times, all went for 1 star - 8 GEMS WERE STOLEN. Each and every time at 5% chance of winning.

Now you tell me. Is it luck? Is it bad luck? Or is it statistically should be that 1 out of 20 should succeed in stealing gems?

If you guys consider the spinning wheel as unmasterable, which I sure will be if the idea is implemented, wouldn't it be more fair? Wouldn't you feel like PLAYERS stole your gems AND NOT the game chose they did?

If it's really a RNG, my gems wouldn't be stolen so much. As for the slow down, no. It will always slow down at the same speed.

Right now, it all looks robotic and unrealistic. In my opinion, players should be the ones to set their fate in the game. That's what this article is all about.

My lasts 5 raids with 3 star ended with 0 gems stolen, with more than 50% chance of steal (level 2 lucky face vs lvl 0 gem defense), my last 3 defenses with 1 star against gold outfit (0% steal bonus), i lost 3 gems, and the ones with most value... Things like this make me think about quit


Edited by werta600, 04 April 2015 - 09:17 AM.


#14 BenBublil

BenBublil

    Pickpocket

  • Hardened Thief
  • 7 posts

Posted 04 April 2015 - 10:23 AM

i think he is saying 8 in 20. And well... i'm not agree with this, if you can stop the spinning wheel only with 0 deaths, this will happens too, 8 in 20 with 5% chance to succeed. If you can stop the spinning wheel allways, someone will master it and that is free gems. It's easier get gems if you can stop that. maybe tat percentage would be 15 in 20 with 5% chance


I'm saying it's all unrealistic. How the hell could I lose 8 out of 20 when all of the thieves had 5% winning chance? Only one should have won out of them. NOT FREAKING 8. And I disagree with you. I like EPICI's suggestion, really is solving:

LET PEOPLE CHOOSE WHEN TO STOP THE SPINNER
BUT
KEEP THE ACCELERATION AS NORMAL

Faster spinner = more velocity = more time to slow to a complete stop.


We should implement these and the rest he said --> great idea.

My lasts 5 raids with 3 star ended with 0 gems stolen, with more than 50% chance of steal (level 2 lucky face vs lvl 0 gem defense), my last 3 defenses with 1 star against gold outfit (0% steal bonus), i lost 3 gems, and the ones with most value... Things like this make me think about quit


That's exactly my point. The game fools you. I'm 100% sure it isn't a RNG. 100% sure. I know many people (including myself) which happened the same for them. Don't quit. Just try to find a way to fix what's happening! Ask questions, find solutions and try and make the game better, as most of us are trying to do here, for the good of the players!

#15 BenBublil

BenBublil

    Pickpocket

  • Hardened Thief
  • 7 posts

Posted 04 April 2015 - 10:23 AM

i think he is saying 8 in 20. And well... i'm not agree with this, if you can stop the spinning wheel only with 0 deaths, this will happens too, 8 in 20 with 5% chance to succeed. If you can stop the spinning wheel allways, someone will master it and that is free gems. It's easier get gems if you can stop that. maybe tat percentage would be 15 in 20 with 5% chance


I'm saying it's all unrealistic. How the hell could I lose 8 out of 20 when all of the thieves had 5% winning chance? Only one should have won out of them. NOT FREAKING 8. And I disagree with you. I like EPICI's suggestion, really is solving:

LET PEOPLE CHOOSE WHEN TO STOP THE SPINNER
BUT
KEEP THE ACCELERATION AS NORMAL

Faster spinner = more velocity = more time to slow to a complete stop.


We should implement these and the rest he said --> great idea.

My lasts 5 raids with 3 star ended with 0 gems stolen, with more than 50% chance of steal (level 2 lucky face vs lvl 0 gem defense), my last 3 defenses with 1 star against gold outfit (0% steal bonus), i lost 3 gems, and the ones with most value... Things like this make me think about quit


That's exactly my point. The game fools you. I'm 100% sure it isn't a RNG. 100% sure. I know many people (including myself) which happened the same for them. Don't quit. Just try to find a way to fix what's happening! Ask questions, find solutions and try and make the game better, as most of us are trying to do here, for the good of the players!

#16 Tjackhammer

Tjackhammer

    Thievery Master

  • Hardened Thief
  • PipPipPip
  • 569 posts

Posted 04 April 2015 - 12:41 PM

If you think it's rigged now (I do although I just won a 10k gem on a respin), they can still rig the spinner to stop AFTER you tell it to stop.

Edited by Tjackhammer, 04 April 2015 - 12:42 PM.


#17 Anse

Anse

    Thievery Adept

  • Hardened Thief
  • Pip
  • 57 posts

Posted 04 April 2015 - 01:22 PM

Maybe would be good let players to stop it 5 times per day, and epici's idea. I'm not totally agree with the idea to stop it allways, but this is happening to me too. I just raid a dungeon in order to steal a 3k+ gem. 3 stars and +20% to steal it, probably 70% to succeed. Fail, respin, fail again, respin and fail. 15 obrs wasted and i'm not going to waste 35. Is not the first time this happens, my record is 8 fails with +50% in a row, and the only way i can protect my gems is making people can't raid my dungeon, getting 0 stars, couse allways if someone has a chance, he steal my gem.

Spoiler



#18 BenBublil

BenBublil

    Pickpocket

  • Hardened Thief
  • 7 posts

Posted 04 April 2015 - 02:08 PM

Maybe would be good let players to stop it 5 times per day, and epici's idea. I'm not totally agree with the idea to stop it allways, but this is happening to me too. I just raid a dungeon in order to steal a 3k+ gem. 3 stars and +20% to steal it, probably 70% to succeed. Fail, respin, fail again, respin and fail. 15 obrs wasted and i'm not going to waste 35. Is not the first time this happens, my record is 8 fails with +50% in a row, and the only way i can protect my gems is making people can't raid my dungeon, getting 0 stars, couse allways if someone has a chance, he steal my gem.

Spoiler


Exactly. Unfairness. Whoever thinks this game generates your posibilities according to your actual chances to win/lose, is wrong.

That's why the ability to stop the spinning wheel by yourself, with some additions and ideas to fix the abusing problem including EPICI's idea, would seal the deal! For good!

#19 EPICI

EPICI

    Thievery Master

  • Hardened Thief
  • PipPipPip
  • 556 posts
  • LocationCanada

Posted 04 April 2015 - 03:37 PM

Exactly. Unfairness. Whoever thinks this game generates your posibilities according to your actual chances to win/lose, is wrong.

That's why the ability to stop the spinning wheel by yourself, with some additions and ideas to fix the abusing problem including EPICI's idea, would seal the deal! For good!

So does anybody else want to oppose this?


Voting against democracy?


#20 GemGirl

GemGirl

    Thievery Master

  • Hardened Thief
  • PipPipPip
  • 318 posts
  • LocationCovered in infinity gems, somewhere.

Posted 07 September 2015 - 03:51 PM

To OP

 ItEBsKr.gif

I am the Queen of thieves

                                Gemgir                                                   






Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: Wheel, Chance, Win, Lucky, Unlucky, Materials, Steal, Random, Gems, Retrieve

0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users