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Dungeon Creation 101


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#1 Cylence

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Posted 04 March 2015 - 07:42 PM

*updated on May 14, 2015 - crossed out fast fall start for version 2.2

*updated on April 23, 2015 - added fast fall start and links to section 102

*updated on April 6, 2015 for version 2.1

 

Dungeon Creation 101: Overview

 

 

Knowledge and Practice

  • Understand the physics, and what a thief can do.

    For example:

    1. Speed when jumping is slower than just gliding across the floor

    2. All the different jumps you can make.

    3. How and when can you change direction.

  • Play around a lot in edit mode. Look at different layouts of top players and test them out yourself. If you can't beat a great dungeon, you won't be able to save one.

  • All this research will allow you to create paths and use traps that force a thief to perform perfect execution of timing and jumps to get to your totem.

 

Layout and Pathing

  • The best dungeon layouts (not the traps but the paths and shape) will have the following features:

    1. Pits that once you fall into, you cannot escape from.

    2. Spaces that allow high jumps (jumping from corners)

    3. Allow door and totem placement to require a thief to double back and encounter your traps multiple times. (The worst layouts offer multiple paths to any location)
  • If you have a pit, make sure to create a path that makes them risk the pit multiple times.
  • You will have to move to a different layout at some point. Don't worry if you lose one or two great features, and just look to make the best of it.

 

Traps and Potions

  • Test each trap individually to understand the potential of a singular trap. It should be hard for you to get to your totem even if there's only one trap still working. Again, play around in edit mode. (If you only focus on making traps deadly in combinations, when one gets disabled, your other trap will be worthless)
  • Once you've understood what positions make each trap powerful on their own, you can then combine them with other traps to make it even more dangerous.

  • Understand that potions will be used against you. Make sure a single potion doesn't cripple your defenses.

     

Duration and Skulls

  • To invite more deaths, make the traps closer to the door, and the path to the totem seemingly short. If a thief feels like he can try many things in a short time, it is easier to die repeatedly and in high quantity.
  • Dungeons that allow waiting and watching trap timing OR allow dodging traps easily and looping infinitely will lessen the amount of skulls you will get.

 

The below example is no longer valid in v2.1.

For Dungeon Examples in v2.1, goto

http://forum.kingoft...ylence/?p=17371

and view dungeons starting with #12 and beyond.

 

Example and Explanation

  • This trap placement requires perfect timing and is usable in many different layouts.
  • The best trap here is the eye cannon as it creates the smallest window to escape. However, each trap can do well on their own if the other two get disabled.
  • It collects skulls easily since it allows for very fast deaths.
  • The slow motion potion does the best here since it'll allow players a better chance at the perfect timing

 

 

M30UN54l.jpg

 

CW9OFXbl.jpg

 

iT5orMPl.jpg

 

txl5rSWl.jpg

 

 

 

Dungeon Creation 102: Improving Agility

 

Learn and Practice

  • Practice makes improvement. Without execution, you will not be able to save your great trap setup, let alone discover trap positioning that forces great execution.
  • Practice in edit mode, practice in single player, practice while thieving.

  • After you lose all your health it doesn't matter if you die more. Try to make runs as if the traps were still there (may be hard to do if cannons get disabled). If you get it right, kill yourself before you get to the chest, and try to do it again.

  • The ghost potion can show the way.

 

Research and Record

  • When you encounter great setups, note the position of the traps and the layout by taking a screenshot.
  • Test the copied layout in edit mode if you can, with each individual trap to see which trap has the best effect. You want to note down any positioning that is strong with just one trap.

  • The best positioning only gives a thief a small window to pass and be safe. If you have time to watch, do so before jumping in.

  • All this research of other traps will reinforce your practicing.

 

Walk and Jump

The following are techniques you should be able to do with enough practice. If you can't double tap fast enough, remember that two hands are faster than one. I will refer to spacing in the terms of the square units on the the edit grid.

Traps may force these moves to be required in order not to die. Traps will also cause timing jumps which are truly varied and not discussed below. (images of each are in this thread http://forum.kingoft...s-poll/?p=13253)

*Note: Moves removed in version 2.1 will be crossed out, moves still in question will have a ?, until I or someone else can verify

  • slow jump - jumping to slow yourself down and change the timing since walking is faster
  • 2.1 fast start jump - fast double tap to jump at the start of the game (http://forum.kingoft...double-tap-v21/)
  • fast start fall - dying mid jump to restart with a faster fall (http://forum.kingoft...istent-spinner/)
  • ceiling jump - bouncing off the ceiling to control jump distance since it cuts off the arch
  • long jump - jumping from a cliff so that you can reach a section 3 units away and 1 unit up
  • 2.0 high jump (ground corner) - landing onto a corner and jumping to reach 3 units up
  • 2.0 high jump (wall corner) - aiming for the corner to wall jump and reach a totem 3 units above the corner
  • 2.0 drop jump - sliding off a hanging corner to a horizontal or downward jump depending on timing
  • double jump - jumping twice on 2 unit wide, first on one edge, then on the other edge
  • platform edge jump - you can avoid falling through a platform if you are near the edge by timing a jump
  • high wall jump - ground to wall jump that allows maximum height to jump over a saw 3 units from the ground.
  • highest wall jump - performing a long jump to increase height before wall jump
  • low wall double jump - aiming a jump into the corner of the wall and ground, then jumping back with min height
  • 2.0 low wall jump - walking into a corner of the wall and ground, then fast double tap a pixel before you hit the wall to jump back with min height (http://forum.kingoft...you-double-tap/)
  • corner aiming - getting your jump to land perfectly on a corner from the wall or the ground which enables high jumps
  • hanging corner aiming - when using a bounce platform you can hit hanging corner without wall sliding which enables a quicker drop jump
  • dive aiming - jumping down 4 or more units and avoiding the walls as much as possible

 

Timing and Adjusting

  • Use the background details and moving traps to note the timing of your jumps. For example, you start your jumps when the spinning guard is at 3 o'clock and then die because you were too early. On your next try, make sure to start your jumps when the spinning guard is at 4 or 5 o'clock.

  • Cannon bullets and guards oscillate at different speeds. If you have time to watch, you'll want to note when the shots and guards overlap and move in the same direction.

  • When practicing, it helps to repeat and get into a good rhythm, making slight adjustments till it works.

 

 

 

Dungeon Creation 103: Analyzing Layouts

 

Terrain and Features

Every layout will have the below features. Understanding how each can be strong will allow you to fully utilize your layout.

Play around in edit mode with no traps. Try to get your character to jump to every location. You should be able to get everywhere easily since there are no traps. If you make a mistake, even a small one, and go where you did not intend, make note of it. These are the hints of a more difficult path.

  • row - a standard horizontal hallway. a thief can't change direction at all once he heads down one of these until he hits the end.
  • column - a vertical shaft that is usually harder to climb than descend, but can be harder to descend as well with traps.
  • stair - a jagged diagonal path, it is usually harder to go up that it is to go down
  • fork - where 3 paths intersect. wrong moves will lead a thief down the wrong path and force him to come back.
  • open - an area that can only be reached with high jumps (usually the 2 units above a row).
  • pit - an area that once you've entered, will not allow you to get back to the rest of the dungeon.
  • platform - movable terrain with collision from above but allows pass through underneath.
  • bounce platform - same as the platform, except jumping from here gives extra speed and height.
  • disappearing platform - same as the platform, except that after you land on it, it'll disappear. (if you land on one edge, you will have enough time make a long jump off the other edge before it disappears)

 

Pits and Platforms

  • The best feature is a pit. If you can force a thief to make a hard to perform execution jump over a pit, with a non perfect attempt landing them into the pit, then you've got a great dungeon even without any actual traps.
  • Do not place platforms so that thieves can escape a pit! Do not place platforms so that thieves can escape a pit! Do not place platforms so that thieves can escape a pit!
  • Do not place your totem inside the pit! Do not place your totem inside the pit! Do not place your totem inside the pit!
  • Seriously... Do not disable your free terrain based trap! Don't be that idiot.
  • Platforms are nice because you can shape the terrain. Be creative and understand what kind of feature you are creating and the pros/cons it provides.

 

Door and Totem

  • Thieves will always move right at the start. You can place a door halfway on a ledge to force them to either jump or fall in the first moments.
  • Force thieves to dodge your traps right away. This way, they will only learn the timing by dying instead of just sitting and watching.
  • If the door is to the right of the totem, it means the thief MUST reverse directions to get to it.
  • If possible, require a hard to perform jump to be mandatory before reaching the totem. This means placing the totem in the air, over a pit, or at the bottom of a column protected by traps. There are a many great bases that just rely on this hard to perform jump (usually a high jump), and just placing traps to protect and minimize the window that corner to jump from is free.

 

Examples and Explanations

I list the features and point out where I would place the door and totem for each of these layouts. They aren't the only way and I'm sure you'll be able to uncover and find even better placements!

Placements no longer valid will in version 2.1 will be crossed out and updated placements will be in italics.

 

YSLQd09t.jpg

Features: 1 row, 4 columns, 3 forks. Place the door in the right column and the totem on the bottom to the far left or the column next to it. This maximizes the path causing mistakes to go down the wrong columns. Trap placement can focus on 3 different aspects, climbing out of the first column, moving horizontally along the top row, or forcing a very accurate dive jump to reach the totem.

 

B9PANCmt.jpg

Features: 2 rows, 1 column, 1 stair, 1 fork. My original example is this layout. I chose to have the thief climb the column to the top row because he can easily make a mistake and end up in the bottom row and have to come back. An alternate path can take advantage of the long bottom row. Placing the totem on the far left with a door placement that forces movement to the right, you can force a thief to deal with your traps going right from the start and then having him have to turn around and face the gauntlet again to get to the totem.

 

L5guo50t.jpg

Features: 1 row, 2 columns, 2 stairs, 2 forks. Totem should be placed to the far left. The door has multiple options, however I prefer the position in the center of the row. This will cause the thief to have to double back, encountering the traps again and with the possibility of falling into the wrong path again.

 

Yy66MLSt.jpg

Features: 1 PIT!, 1 row (the bottom row is a pit), 4 small columns, 2 forks, 3 small open areas above the row. A good layout. Door placement can the be far right column or the right center column (pit danger!). Totem can be placed in the left most open or center open area requiring a high jump to reach. Totem can be placed in the left column to maximize pit time. The center can punish retries more with two possibilities of falling into the pit, while the left most placement makes the thief cross both forks before attempting a high jump.

Edit: Discovered a better placement. Totem in the left most open Totem in left most column, and the door hanging off the left edge of the second column. This would force the user to encounter both pit entrances and have to come back for a minimum of 3 chances to fall in the pit.

 

IvBtqQYt.jpg

Features: 1 PIT!, 1 row, 1 column, 1 large open area, 2 platforms. An awesome layout. Because of the movable platforms, there can be many configurations. The totem has many locations and the platforms should force multiple hard to perform jumps. The door can be anywhere that helps that out.

 

 

 

 

Dungeon Creation 104: Discovering Trap Potential

 

Goals and Focusing

  • The goal is to make it difficult to reach your totem with only one trap active.

  • Each individual trap should force a player to perform a hard to execute maneuver or only have a small window of timing to get by.

  • Focus on each trap by testing without the other two.

  • If there is an "open" area for you to put your totem and force a high jump (wall), you can try positioning a trap to defend the corner that the thief has to high jump off of.

 

Trial and Error

  • Start by placing a trap at the start of the path from the door to the totem and work you way towards the totem if needed.

  • When you find a position where you can't pass and you keep dying, you may have found a strong position.

  • Do not give up easily and assume that passing that position is impossible. Give it a few hundred varied attempts. The best positions are always going to be the ones that you seemingly can't pass.

  • After failing enough times, it may be impassable. You will still want to note that position and see if anyone else has it saved on their base for future reference.

  • Once you've found a position that you had to try a bunch of times to finally pass, you can now label it as a "strong" position.

  • Eventually you'll find multiple positions that are strong for each trap. Record each one.

  • Here is a great thread by fsdrobs on strong positions for the Buzz Saw (http://forum.kingoft...se-the-buzzsaw/) Some positions may be out of date, however, most are still good.

 

Combining and Saving

  • This is the hard part. You've made passing each individual trap hard. Passing all three should be incredibly difficult.
  • Pick your favorite locations of all the strong positions you found while testing each individual trap. Now, put them together.

  • You will have to try harder than you did in the previous testing of singular traps.

  • You will die A LOT.

  • You will probably have to test multiple combinations before you can get to one you can actually beat.

  • Save all your notes. You'll need them again when you move or encounter the same placement when thieving.

  • Good Luck!


Edited by Cylence, 14 May 2015 - 11:29 AM.


#2 Aristo

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Posted 04 March 2015 - 07:52 PM

Nice post, really informative and well thought out. Good job.
Hey look, that Aristo guy is posting on all the threads again!

#3 JuicySeza

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Posted 04 March 2015 - 08:30 PM

One thing you should pay attention for is: the best dungeon is one you make yourself. What i mean by this is, don't use layouts/tricks that everyone has. People will start knowing

 

the difficulties and the timing very fast. Of course some people will fail allot but you could be suprised by a person who remembers the layout and gets a 3 star on you!

 

MAIN EXAMPLE: The blue guard spawn trap trick, don't rely on it because everyone on the forum probably knows the 2 finger trick/piano trick/... they'll pass it every time.


                                                     Big thanks to 1gga for making this awesome avatar / 200k gems / Kings League / lvl 30 / Most skulls 406 / Guild: TheColterZ 


#4 Cylence

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Posted 04 March 2015 - 09:48 PM

Nice post, really informative and well thought out. Good job.

 

Thanks Aristo. I hope it helps people discover and create new dungeon setups.

 

 

the difficulties and the timing very fast. Of course some people will fail allot but you could be suprised by a person who remembers the layout and gets a 3 star on you!

 

MAIN EXAMPLE: The blue guard spawn trap trick, don't rely on it because everyone on the forum probably knows the 2 finger trick/piano trick/... they'll pass it every time.

One thing you should pay attention for is: the best dungeon is one you make yourself. What i mean by this is, don't use layouts/tricks that everyone has. People will start knowing

 

I agree that lesser known traps are much more effective than widely known traps.

 

I'm making my dungeon more susceptible to attacks by making it public (it will become known). However, it's most likely gonna change soon due to moving to a new layout. And even if you know how to solve it, actually doing it is still hard.

 

My post was to mainly URGE people to figure out and discover the possibilities of each of the traps and combine them in effective ways.



#5 Cylence

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Posted 04 March 2015 - 10:52 PM

One more image to show that the layout can handle even when people use potions. =)

 

txl5rSWl.jpg



#6 Theif

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Posted 04 March 2015 - 10:55 PM

It's really well done! I will use this page as a reference sometimes  ^_^


THEIF:

 

An outcast trying to reclaim the King's throne.

The only one, who can stop the King's rule, once and for all.

Oh, and by the way, she's a girl.

 

signatur_5_animatedjzs8w.gif


#7 Cylence

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Posted 06 March 2015 - 06:22 AM

Let me know if this was helpful. If I get enough replies and maybe a sticky from the mods, I may do a further dive into each section, such as

 

Dungeon Creation 102: Improving Agility (focus on thief movement)

Dungeon Creation 103: Analyzing Layouts (focus on what to look for in your layout)

Dungeon Creation 104: Discovering Trap Potential (focus on finding good trap positions)



#8 Menta

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Posted 06 March 2015 - 06:31 AM

Nice guide, pinned ;)
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#9 daninnm

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Posted 06 March 2015 - 10:24 AM

Is there any trick when trying to save a similar to your layout - cannon and fly that close to the door (I find it very hard to beat even the fly). How do you double tap that fast. Do you do the first tap after you've touched the wall or before? On my iPad when you have one finger touching the screen if you tap with another it doesn't do anything - is there any way to disable that so I can use the "piano method" more successfully? Any advice on how to do such a "double jump from corner" will be greatly appriciated.



#10 Plumbum

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Posted 06 March 2015 - 04:44 PM

Yeah. TopicStarter, what device you are playing from? Do you use mouse? 



#11 Cylence

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Posted 06 March 2015 - 05:32 PM

Is there any trick when trying to save a similar to your layout - cannon and fly that close to the door (I find it very hard to beat even the fly). How do you double tap that fast. Do you do the first tap after you've touched the wall or before? On my iPad when you have one finger touching the screen if you tap with another it doesn't do anything - is there any way to disable that so I can use the "piano method" more successfully? Any advice on how to do such a "double jump from corner" will be greatly appriciated.

 

It really is just practice. I've edited the original post to include a second section. The avoid getting hit by the eye cannon, you need to perform a perfect low wall jump. I usually use my right index to tap the screen to start then I watch for the moment the character is just about to touch the wall, then I tap first with my left thumb then right index. Two hands are faster than one. =) Good Luck.

 

The fly gives you more room so it doesn't have to be as perfect.

 

Yeah. TopicStarter, what device you are playing from? Do you use mouse? 

 

I'm playing the game on an iPhone 5.



#12 daninnm

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Posted 06 March 2015 - 05:59 PM

Managed to save it thanks for the help. With multiple fingers it really is a bit easier but still the speed with which it has to be done is insane. I'm on iPad btw.



#13 Plumbum

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Posted 07 March 2015 - 01:05 AM

Still cant jump from that scary corner, not even once out of 2345678987654 tries. Can you give me some hints, please? 



#14 Theif

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Posted 07 March 2015 - 01:17 AM

Well, use the guide and just keep trying. After all, if it was that easy, not many people would die from a base like that.

THEIF:

 

An outcast trying to reclaim the King's throne.

The only one, who can stop the King's rule, once and for all.

Oh, and by the way, she's a girl.

 

signatur_5_animatedjzs8w.gif


#15 Cylence

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Posted 07 March 2015 - 02:29 AM

Just added section 3.

 

 

Still cant jump from that scary corner, not even once out of 2345678987654 tries. Can you give me some hints, please? 

Try to break it down. First double tap before you even hit the wall. Keep doing that until you can tap to start, then double tap. Once you get a rhythm down, you should be able to start  then double tap easily. Now practice delaying a little bit longer until you can consistently do it. Now inch your way to the wall. Good Luck!



#16 DanFariasM

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Posted 07 March 2015 - 07:17 PM

Is it possible to do it with a regular cannon as well? or only works with the eye cannon?



#17 daninnm

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Posted 07 March 2015 - 11:06 PM

I've seen people do it with regular cannon I don't have one in my setup though so I can't tell you if it's easier or harder, but it is possible. The first time I saw this jump it was with a regular and a homing cannon.



#18 JackBowe

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Posted 07 March 2015 - 11:08 PM

Great for beginners and advanced alike, I recommend a read. ;)
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The problem with most of us these days is we would rather be ruined by praise than saved by criticism.

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#19 Plumbum

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Posted 08 March 2015 - 01:53 AM

Just added section 3.

 

 

Try to break it down. First double tap before you even hit the wall. Keep doing that until you can tap to start, then double tap. Once you get a rhythm down, you should be able to start  then double tap easily. Now practice delaying a little bit longer until you can consistently do it. Now inch your way to the wall. Good Luck!

I dont understand - 1st jump is do from a foor or a wall? Or from direct corner? 
Would be awesome if someone can make a video with this amazing jump. 



#20 Cylence

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Posted 08 March 2015 - 05:23 AM

Working up to execute the Low Wall Jump.

 

If you want to be able to perform the jump, take these steps:

 

1. First you need to be able to do a really fast double tap. Set up a spinner to insta kill you at the door. Practice your double tap until you can dodge the spinner 15 times in a row. I use two hands. Either both thumbs, both indexes or thumb and index. Two hand IS faster. Once you are able to consistently do a very fast double tap, move on to step 2.

 

2. Setup the cannon and practice tapping once to start, then double tapping. Don't worry if you aren't getting it right, you just want to get used to doing a single tap, pause, then fast double tap. Do this untill you can start and double tap before you reach the wall easily. Aim for 15 times in a row. Do not just do 3 consecutive taps. You want to work on being able to pause between the single tap and double tap.

 

3. Now you can start aiming for the corner. Tap to start and watch the char walk to the corner, you want to double tap one pixel before he starts to do the wall lean. You can tell if you are getting closer by seeing where the cannon hits you. If its killing you before you even get under it, then you are too slow.

 

You can try practicing against the fly. It will give you a larger window to show if you are making improvements or not. Once you can do the fly a decent amount of time, then take on the cannon.

 

Note: if you see your char jump straight up along the wall, the double tap is LATE.

Good Luck






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